So, by the logic of all this, what happens if a JW gets sick with a communicable disease, such as measles, influenza, tuberculosis. Does he/she have to attend, and if so, wouldn't that put the rest of the congregation at risk? When I was a JW back in the early 1960's, I don't recall this ever being an issure.
Posts by Rod P
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51Now Elders Are Making Elderly & Infirm Feel Guilty For "Being Hooked Up"!
by minimus inmy mom as well as a few others are "hooked up by phone" to the meetings.
lately, the elders are saying in their talks that if a brother or sister could be at the meetings but instead are "hooked up", then they are hurting jehovah by not having regular association with the "friends" at the kingdom hall.
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A decent and viable substitute for the WTS
by greendawn inlet's suppose that a large number of ex jws decided to get together and set up a new religious entity to provide any spiritual benefits, that were provided by the wts but as we all know in an exploitative and destructive way.
in a devious way much bitterness was added to whatever benefit they gave.
what would your suggestions be in the way of forming such an entity?
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Rod P
Perhaps we are already in a kind of "network brotherhood" around the world, united in, and devoted to, the cause of "freedom from religion".
I would describe us all as part of the "Worldwide Church of Bahh Humbug!" (not about things spiritual, but about Organized Religion. The trouble begins when you start to "organize" and develop "articles of faith" and a "code of ethics" and "rules and regulations" and a list of "do's and don'ts", and so on. We spent a lot of time, energy and angst getting out of the trap; let's not fall back into another one.
I would rather be a maverick than a member!
Rod P.
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Is The Governing Body Guilty?
by Honesty inall i heard the whole time i was a jw is, "satan is working hard to break up the family arrangement in the organisation".
well, the only ones i ever saw breaking up families is the jw religion.
if you leave the religion for any reason you and any of your jw family are publicly estranged from each other with the threat of being df'd hanging over the heads of each of your active jw family members if they have more than minimal contact with you.
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Rod P
You bet your sweet biffy they are!
The path of destruction to families the GB has left in the wake of their policies of fanaticism, mis-interpretation, mis-information, judgment and condemnation, as well as autocratic dictatorship and heavy-handed control is beyond belief.
It is mind-boggling to contemplate the thousands upon thousands of individuals whose lives have been destroyed, and the family units that have been ripped apart over the years. Have a good hard look at this JWD forum, and you are but glimpsing the tip of the iceberg. If we unite and persist in this work, I believe we will create a ground swell over time, and become a force to be reckoned with, if not already.
This is not about picking on the sincere and well-meaning JW's as individuals, who are being victimized too, but just don't realize that yet.
This is about exposing a despotic system, a religious organization that should not be allowed to run rampant in the world, sowing it's seeds of deception to get new members in on the one hand, and once they are in, "dumbing" them down with their unscriptural propaganda, with all kinds of twists and turns and obfuscation in the name of "New Light", telling these unsuspecting, starrey-eyed victims that the GB, and the GB alone, speak for God, and you better listen to us, or else you're gonna die at the big "A". It's "Baaahhhh! Baaaaahhhhh! black sheep. Tell me how high I have to jump, and when can I come down. Don't think for yourself. We'll do the thinking for you, and then all you have to do is listen, learn and obey. That is Jehovah's way....." What a pile of crap!
When anyone dares to think for himself/herself, and sees thru this for what it really is, and then starts to question anything to do with doctrine, prophecy or policy, and does not repent from this, that person will be caste out from their midst and into the world, with a virtual death sentence pronounced on their head. Let the shunning begin! You must be made to swallow the "bitter pill" of Disfellowshipment in the name of Love, to help you see the error of your ways, to repent and come back into the fold of Jehovah's "loving Organization". Then watch the destruction this reaps....(Excuse me, I think I am going to vomit...)
The GB reminds me very much of the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz, who hides behind the curtain, the veil of anonymity, while shouting his orders as the "Mighty Oz" to the masses thru loudspeakers for all to hear. The sound resonates with such authority, that no-one dares to challenge the Might Oz, and all obey without hesitation or question. This keeps the kingdom in perfect "harmony and order". Then when someone pulls aside the curtain and discovers who the Mighty Oz really is, we discover this puny old man, who is more like the Cowardly Lion that has to be propped up with the big lie and cover-up. How brave would these aging members of the Governing Body be if they were made to meet with, and look into the eyes of, each of the people of all these destroyed families caused by and thru them and the Organization they control?
Are they responsible? How about the little sign on the desk of the U.S. President that reads: "The Buck Stops Here!" I'll bet the GB doesn't have such a sign on their desk.
Rod P.
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Rod P
M.J.
I never paid much attention to Avatars before. After I got thru reading about yours, I have to say, "Man, I am impressed!"
Thinkin' about hunting up one for me now. On the other hand, my daughter is a budding artist whose into computer graphics and all that. Maybe I'll get her to do it.
Thanks for turning on this "New Light" for me.
Rod P.
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100 th Post ----Yaaah for me
by moanzy in.
i hope this means i'm not a newbie anymore!!!.
i have made more progress in these 100 posts than i did in 25 yrs in the org.. moanzy
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Rod P
Way to go Moanzy! I'm proud of you.....
If you look off to the left, below your picture, you will see your designation "Junior Member".
Your next graduation will be at 250 posts when you become "Senior Member". (I reached that last Friday the 13th, which means it was a lucky day.)
Be talkin' to ya'
Love,
Dad
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38
Why are men so bad?
by Qcmbr insometimes i'm so ashamed of being male - .
why are men responsible for most rapes, paedophilia, pornography, abuse, criminal behaviour, war, bullying etc..?
if women (on average) were as physically strong as men would they be responsible for 50% of the above or is it something to do with men?
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Rod P
Who was it that said "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." (Winston Churchill??, but not sure)
I think that holds true for both men and women.
Qcmbr,
I don't disagree with you that Margaret and Imelda are no comparison with Hitler and Genghis Kahn. I was not distinguishing the extent to which men or women can be "bad". I was merely trying to make the point that men and women are both capable of everything that was on your list. To what extent or limit (potentially speaking) I really don't know.
Who is to say how "bad or evil" a woman would have been had she occupied the same position as Hitler. I would like to believe the damage would have been less, but how can anyone know for sure. When someone in power turns on a war machine and unleashes it on their "enemies" it tends to take on a life of its own. I think George Bush may be experiencing some of that with Iraq. Once you are in the war, we suddenly find we are capable of more evil than we thought possible beforehand.
I have met some pretty deliberately cruel and evil women in my time, and it's not a pretty picture.
Rod P.
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Field Service is a Farce
by swiftbreeze ini touch on this subject in another post but i felt the need to take it further...back in the day jw's went out in fs but i don't know about today.... i live in a big city....the territory my congregation has is small because there are so many cong.
here.. our bookstudy only had maybe four blocks at the most to work.
my ex husband and i would go to the meetings and hear talk about fs and all the wonderful and experiences and the joy oh joy in being out in the ministry.
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Rod P
We did a lot of country travel and doorknocking. It was not unusual to have 5 or 6 in a car, since usually there were a couple of kids along. Everybody got to count their time, while only one or two actually got out of the car at any one time to knock on a farmhouse door.
The other thing that used to bother me as a JW was this business of standing on the street corner with a Watchtower and Awake in hand. I know in KM meetings we were shown how to take the initiative to walk up to people on the street and start talking, and I actually enjoyed that, but didn't witness on the street very often. But what bothered me a lot was all these "brothers and sisters" who just stood there on the streetcorner like wooden Indians, and never spoke a word unless spoken to by a passer-by. Many times I would see them look at their watches, and then put the magazines back in their purse or briefcase and then walk away, kind of blending into the crowd as though they had never been there. I don't know if most of them were just shy, or felt intimidated, but why did they just stand there?
So I thought about that for a while. And it began to dawn on me why they did that. It was because they could stand there and not have to talk to anyone, or knock on doors and meet abusive householders. They would stand there so that they could count this time on their field service report. At the same time, the odds are that if you stand there long enough, someone is bound to come up to you and talk to you, and most of those types are usually pretty kind or civil (but not all). So then you could talk about these little experiences at the Kingdom Hall. That reinforces your reputation amongst your fellow witnesses, and you become perceived as one of the more "spiritually mature", and a faithful Witness of Jehovah.
During Kingdom Ministry School, we practised how to give presentations for the field. Testimonials and experiences would be given. And we would hear comments about how "people of the world" respected JW's and how much courage it must take to knock on doors and stand on street corners for their faith. But for those who have done this, that is just not the case. Standing on the street corner does not require a lot of courage! It is the easy way out, when compared to approaching people on the street or knocking on doors or visiting offices to place literature.
I know this all sounds so cynical, but I feel that this is closer to the truth, than the JW version of how they do field service for Jehovah.
Rod P.
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Do JWs Actually Have Less of a Divorce Rate Than Other Religions???
by minimus ini think so.
very few couples got divorced, even after they were caught with another person.i know that most that got df'd for straying still didn't get divorced----they tried to work it out.
have you seen this too?
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Rod P
I don't know the true statistics on this one, but I am wondering if the relatively low divorce rate amongst JW's is more apparent than real.The question I have is, how many JW's "leave the truth" and then later divorce. Therefore, they would not be included in the numbers.
The reason I wonder if this might be significant, is because over the years there have been a heck of a lot of people that have left the JW's for good, or were kicked out and never came back. Therefore they would no longer feel obligated or inclined to follow the JW policy on divorce.
Hmmmm......just wondering!
Rod P.
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Do any small creatures frighten & freak you out?
by Rod P inhere's the dirty dozen: .
1) ants- imagine being buried in a sandpile up to your neck with sand.
along come a bunch of ants from an ant colony, and they crawl all over your head, in and out of your nose, your mouth, your ears, your eyes, and all thru your hair.
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Rod P
swiftbreeze,
You realize don't you that spiders are a good thing to have around. They get rid of a lot of other little insects around your place.
Whenever I see a spider, I always get a stick or a flyswatter, and coax it onto the stick and then carry it outside and then shake it off the stick. They'll help you with yard bugs too.
Rod P.
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I LOVE YA
by mormon 4 life ini agree with all.
before i become a mormon i study jw and when i read about the 144.00 i remeber asking the witness if i would be one of them.. they never replid they said they would get back to me on that one but they never did.
so what i have said is not to make it look like i dislike jws but just that i disagree with da doctrine......love ya mormon 4 life.
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Rod P
Double Edge,
Now that I have had the chance to review the material available on Tanner's website on the matter of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, I offer the following:
First of all, the part I quoted from her was actually a rather small part of the whole thing. Many sources other than her own articles are also indexed and readily available for all to see, including that of Juanita Brooks, which you hold as "one of the best, objective books written on the subject."
In view of that, let me quote an observation of Juanita Brooks in her book (p.219-220), which, by the way, I took of Tanner's web-site:
"While Brigham Young and George A. Smith, the church authorities chiefly responsible, did not specifically order the massacre, they did preach sermons and set up social conditions which made it possible....Brigham Young was accessory after the fact, in that he knew what had happened, and how and why it happened. Evidence of this is abundant and unmistakable, and from the most impeccable Mormon sources.
Knowing then, why did not President Young take action against these men?... He did have the men chiefly responsible released from their offices in the church following a private church investigation, but since he understood well that their acts had grown out of loyalty to him and his cause, he would not betray them into the hands of their common "enemy"....Someone assuredly warned all the participants, so that for many yars they were all able to evade arrest.
The church leaders decided to sacrifice Lee only when they could see that it would be impossible to acquit him without assuming a part of the responsibility themselves....this token sacrifice had to be made. Hence the farce which was the second trial of [John D.] Lee. The leaders evidently felt that by placing all the responsibility squarely upon him, already doomed, they could lift the stigma from the church as a whole."
In Hubert Howe Bancroft's "History of Utah 1540 - 1886" Chapter XX The Mountain Meadows Massacre, we see the following words of John D. Lee, the only man sentenced for this entire crime, who is about to be executed by firing squad:
"The marshall now read the order of the court, and, turning to the prisoner, said: "Mr.Lee, if you have anything to say before the order of the court is carried into effect, you can do so now." Rising from the coffin, he looked calmly around for a moment, and then with unfaltering voice repeated in substance the statements already quoted from his confession. "I have but little to say this morning." he added. "It seems I have to be made a victim; a victim must be had, and I am the victim. I studied to make Brigham Young's will my pleasure for thirty years. See now what I have come to this day! I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner. I cannot help it; it is my last word; it is so. I do not fear death; I shall never go to a worse place than I am now in. I ask the Lord my God, if my labors are done, to receive my spirit." A Methodist clergyman, who acted as his spiritual advisor, then knelt by his side and offered a brief prayer, to which he listened attentively. After shaking hands with those around him, he removed a part of his clothing, handing his hat to the marshal, who bound a handkerchief over his eyes, his hands being free at his own request. Seating himself with his face to the firing party, and with hands clasped over his head, he exclaimed: "Let them shoot the balls through my heart. Don't let them mangle my body" The words of command was given; the report of rifles rang forth on the still morning air, and without a groan or quiver the body of the criminal fell back lifeless on his coffin. God was more merciful to him than he had been to his victims." End quote.
And so the words of a dieing man now ring in my ears. Why would John D. Lee speak with such conviction just a few minutes before his death? What does a dieing man have to lose? Why would he lie? And if he was speaking the truth, then tell me the leaders of the Church, including Brigham Young, did not have some responsibility for this whole murderous affair?
Anyway, I do not want to drag this whole thing out any further, because I do not to spend all my time "picking on the Church". But I do want people to know why it is that I am no longer Mormon, and why I don't believe it anymore.
Finally, I will reiterate once more, that I bear no animosity or hatred towards the Mormon people as individuals. There are many things about them I admire and respect, and by far the majority of them are honest, decent and hard-working people who are sincere in their beliefs. It's the sytem and the doctrines that I do battle with. By the way, I still listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and I consider them one of the best in the world. When I hear them sing the Battle Hymn of the Republic and Handel's Messiah I still get chills up my back.
Regards,
Rod P.